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 So you think ii is all over?

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Shankly Gates
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Shankly Gates


Nombre de messages : 1670
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Date d'inscription : 2005-01-13

So you think ii is all over? Empty
PostSubject: So you think ii is all over?   So you think ii is all over? EmptyMon 7 Mar 2005 - 19:50

And who could blame many of our supporters for feeling that way after the loss at Newcastle. Can we still get that fourth CL place? Should we really be aiming for it or should Raffa be putting his priorities on rebuilding the side without the pressure of trying to finish fourth? Is Stevie G' dominance in the team good or bad for the team as a whole?

First, can we still get fourth spot? Yes we can. The toffees have picked up 11 points out of the last 30 possible. We have picked up 12 out of the last 30. there are 30 points left to play for. The difference is that they have to come to Anfield and their next 3 games are against us, Arsenal and Man U.

We have it comparatively easy for our run in with only Arsenal to play out of the top 3. I think this next 3 game period will probably decide who is going to get that fourth spot. If we lose to them at Anfield this would effectively be a six point loss, and that my fellow reds does not bear thinking about. But let's not be negative here because it is equally a six point loss for them if we win.

Should we really be aiming for 4th spot?

I know that some of you may think Shankly Gates has finally lost his marbles by making this statement, but think about it. Should we really be asking Raffa not only to come in to a new club with considerable dead wood left over by the previous manager to be cut out, some serious tactical problems, but also to qulaify for the CL as well. We could actually be damaging our long term goal, which is surely to build a team that can win the Prem rather than finish 4th. All for the sake of the prize money that comes with getting into the CL 12million pounds I believe. I think we should be saying to Raffa get on with your rebuilding, never mind where we finish in the league. We could be wasting valuable time by not letting him get rid of the players he doesn't want to keep, but has to try and claim 4th spot. Let him get on with his rebuilding is my opinion.

Is Stevie G' dominance good for the teamas a whole?

Well I guess the ones who are still sitting on the fence as to whether I have lost my marbles or not will probably come off it now. I do think it is detrimental to the side. I don't believe that Stevie taking the ball off the toes of a team member because he thinks he is the only one capable of hitting the right pass is good for the team morale. You could also argue that this is born out by the teams performances when he hasn't played.

I also wonder what effect it must have on the team morale when they have to listen to their captain telling the press they are not good enough. Then they have to watch Chelsea' manager and players single him out for special attention on the pitch after having lost the final to his own goal! I have often said I would like him to stay with the club and would respect his decision if he moved on. Having said that though I would not want to see him stay under the present circumstances that we need him more than he needs us. I fail to see how that can be healthy for the team and club as a whole.

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PostSubject: Re: So you think ii is all over?   So you think ii is all over? EmptyMon 7 Mar 2005 - 20:06

Je pense que l'on peut encore accrocher la 4ème place mais on n'a plus droit à l'erreur. Il faut faire un sans faute pour y parvenir.
Cela dit, l'essentiel est effectivement de construire une équipe capable de gagner la Premier League à nouveau et pour cela, il faut laisser du temps à Rafa. L'argent de la CL ne serait pas de trop. Il nous permettrait en tous cas de gagner un peu de temps je pense. Une saison vraisemblablement, mais guère plus. Alors c'est vrai qu'à la limite, on peut se passer de cette 4ème place si on laisse Rafa travaiiler tranquilement.

Pour Gerrard, vu son talent, vu ses origines, j'espère qu'il restera s'il retrouve le mental approprié. S'il doit rester dans l'état d'esprit qui semble être le sien en ce moment, je dirai Bye Mr Gerrard, and thanks for all.
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PostSubject: The Questions.   So you think ii is all over? EmptyTue 8 Mar 2005 - 13:51

First, 4th spot.

It's going to be a lot more difficult than we think. We've a lot of under-performing players and as you've said, we've only managed 12 points in the last 30. Do we know know what our best team is out of the available players? I'm not sure that we do.

Everton are doing all that they can to give the place up but we are hardly marching up the table with a lot of purpose. It Everton get a point (or three) against us it's all over.

Since everyone is convinced that Baros, Gerrard, Kewell and Hyppia are leaving this summer I can hardly imagine that they are going to be overly motivated. Basically, things look bleak.

Second, tomorrow night.

There is a serious chance that we're going to melt and lose the tie. I just hope that we get an early goal on the break and kill the tie. However, I don't have much confidence that we can keep the ball if things start getting difficult.

Finally, our captain.

With hindsight, it is obvious that he should have gone last year. He's reading to much of the London media and now believes the hype. Personally, I think that he's been less than a perfect performer this season and it is clear that he's not the captain we need.

There is the possibility that Chelsea will win the league and a couple of cups and then decide that he's not worth the outlay considering that they've just one a stack of silverware.

We could then be "stuck" with him or in the position of touting him around the big money clubs for a discount because he's not wanting to stay. We'll see.
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PostSubject: Re: So you think ii is all over?   So you think ii is all over? EmptyTue 8 Mar 2005 - 14:11

Un petit avis personnel sur Gerrard :

Cette défaite à Newcastle (je n’ai pas vu le match, je ne donc pas en faire une analyse en soi) est particulièrement énervante. Ainsi, se poursuit notre saison binaire – victoire à Anfield, défaire à l’extérieur- , et cela semble inéluctable …. Pourtant, des Magpies en regain de forme, ce n’est pas très redoutable …

Finalement, cette défait s’inscrit dans la liste de nos médiocres prestations récentes à l’extérieur (Southampton, Birmingham), où à chaque fois nous avons mérité de perdre et, de manière très inquiétante, nous n’avons quasiment pas eu d’occasions de buts !!!

S’il est certain que les blessures ne nous facilitent pas la vie (ainsi à Newcastle nous n’avions que Baros comme arme offensive, puisque tous les autres étaient out : Cissé, Mellor, FSP, Morientes et Kewell à nouveau), c’est aussi un état d’esprit qui est en jeu … Les rumeurs vont bon train sur la cassure au sein de l’effectif entre Steven Gerrard et tous les autres. Apparemment, notre capitaine s’est saoulé de son propre égotisme et, hormis Carragher, ne voit aucun joueur digner de ce nom dans l’effectif …. Sympa pour les autres ….

Quand on connaît Stevie, on a du mal à croire que c’est bien lui sur le terrain, il est absolument méconnaissable. Et ce n’est pas seulement la traversée d’une mauvaise période, cela saute aux yeux qu’il y a quelque chose de casser depuis le début de l’année 2005 …

A mon avis, il s’est définitivement résolu à quitter les Reds car sa foi l’a quittée. Il continue probablement d’adorer ce club et ce maillot, mais il ne croit plus ne cette équipe. Alors, forcément, il déprime, comme un amant qui se rend compte qu’il n’aime plus sa bien-aimée … Il essaie bien évidemment de faire semblant ou de relancer la flamme, mais rien n’y fait, et cela aboutit à ces prestations de zombie depuis un mois (vous vous rappelez du match à Southampton, c’était consternant) …

Non seulement, Stevie n’assume pas son statut de joueur, mais encore moins celui de leader … On a parfois même l’impression qu’il se cache, alors qu’il y a encore peu il réclamait tous les ballons …

Il saute aux yeux que le capitaine en exercice de cette équipe est bel et bien le magnifique Jamie Carragher, métamorphosé en grand joueur cette saison. C’est lui le patron, et non plus Gerrard. Il l’est devenu par défaut, mais il l’assume bien. Les statistiquent montrent que cette année nous avons de meilleurs résultats sans Gerrard dans l’équipe.

Il ne faut pas attribuer trop d’importance à cette donnée certes, mais cela peut nous renforcer dans l’analyse suivante : le joueur qui nous fait le plus cruellement défaut est bien Xabi Alonso.
Remarquable depuis le début de saison, il a quitté l’équipe suite à un tacle méchant de Frack Lamapard le 1er janvier dernier et ne devrait plus rejouer de la saison …. Or, c’est depuis cette date que l’équipe peine à retrouver son équilibre de décembre, où le duo Gerrard / Alonso faisait des merveilles … Alonso nous manque beaucoup par sa qualité de passé, la précision et la variété de ses coups de pied arrêtés et par la fluidité de son jeu …

D’ailleurs, si j ‘étais Mouriho, je changerai mon fusil d’épaule et j’essaierai d’attirer plutôt Alonso que Gerrard, car ce dernier est moins complémentaire de Lampard, les 2 anglais partageant en partie un registre similaire ….

Si Gerrard devait rester avec nous, il l’aurait dit et tout serait clair. Or, il reste silencieux, et les rumeurs vont et viennent, augurant d’un départ vers le Sud Londonnien (voir ailleurs, on ne sait jamais). Benitez préférerait construire son équipe autour d’un joueur comme Gerrard, c’est évident. En même temps, dans la plus pure tradition des Reds, aucun joueur n’est plus grand que le club.
S’il va essayer de le convaincre de rester, il ne souhaitera garder qu’un joueur motivé et soutenu par ses coéquipiers, et j’ai bien peur que cela soit trop tard. De surcroît, son départ permettrait l’arrivée nécessaire de plusieurs joueurs pour renforcer l’équipe, dans le XI de départ mais aussi dans le squad bien trop léger au jour d’aujourd’hui …

Une grande partie des fans (en tout cas sur Liveropol) en ont assez du comportement de diva de Stevie. La cassure est réelle après les épisodes estivaux et sa sortie récente à la veille du match contre Olympiakos. Qui eut cru en juin dernier qu’on pourrait envisager un départ de Gerrard : né à Liverpool, formé au club, jeune capitaine et leader des mythiques Reds …

J’espère me tromper, et dans le foot post-bosmanien, tout les coups de théâtre sont possibles … Mais, je crois toutefois que la Rafalution va se poursuivre sans Stevie, ce qui est dommage mais peut-être un mal pour un bien …

Pour boucler la boucle, disons que ce we ne fut pas aussi catastrophique qu’il aurait pu l’être avec les défaites de Borough, des Spurs et surtout d’Everton … Avec 3 matchs à domicile à venir (dont le derby de la Mersey dans 15 jours), les Reds, à défaut de prendre la 4ème place, devraient recoller aux basques des Toffees !
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Shankly Gates
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Shankly Gates


Nombre de messages : 1670
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Date d'inscription : 2005-01-13

So you think ii is all over? Empty
PostSubject: Next Season   So you think ii is all over? EmptyTue 8 Mar 2005 - 20:04

So taking into account what you have written above Redpassion who do think Raffa would willingly keep for next season out of the present squad.

I emphasize willingly, this means not just because nobody will take them of our hands.

For me it would be Carson, Traore, Hyppia, Carragher, Pellegrino?, Finnan, Hamman, Alonso, Riise, Ciise, Garcia, Morientes, Nunez.

You will note I have most notably left out Gerrard as regardless as to what Raffa says publicly I believe he would rather have the money to spend.

This is not my choice of who he should keep but who I think he really wants to keep.

This gives you some idea of the re-building task that faces him!
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PostSubject: Who to keep...   So you think ii is all over? EmptyWed 9 Mar 2005 - 13:02

George, a lot of this depends on if we're in the CL next year. If we're not I think that he'll get rid of more players and build a more physical side. With the CL he'll keep more of the existing squad.

OK, here is my shot...

Liverpool FC Squad - 2004-05
1. Jerzy Dudek - Gone and basically only because of his age.
3. Steve Finnan - Keep.
4. Sami Hyypia - If we're in the CL he'll stay. If not he'll go.
5. Milan Baros - Gone. He'll never learn.
6. John Arne Riise - Keep.
7. Harry Kewell - Gone. I think that Raffa is going to make an example of him.
8. Steven Gerrard - I've said this before but we could be stuck with him. My guess is that he's in Milan next year.
9. Djibril Cisse - Keep.
10. Luis Garcia - Keep. Please work on his strenght and tell him to run at players.
11. Vladimir Smicer - Gone for a free.
12. Mauricio Pellegrino - Gone. I think that Raffa can let him go and then say to the other players that he's bought "look no sacred cows". If you don't perform, you go.
13. Anthony Le Tallec - I think that he'll give him another year.
14. Xabi Alonso - Keep.
15. Salif Diao - Gone!
16. Dietmar Hamann - Keep.
17. Josemi Josemi - Not sure.
18. Antonio Nunez - Keep. There have been flashes of something here.
19. Fernando Morientes - Keep.
20. Scott Carson - Keep. But I expect another keeper to arrive.
21. Djimi Traore - Keep. But I expect another left back to arrive.
22. Chris Kirkland - Gone.
23. Jamie Carragher - Keep. Captain.
24. Florent Sinama Pongolle - Keep. I think that Raffa saw something here.
25. Igor Biscan - Keep.
26. Richie Partridge - Gone.
28. Stephen Warnock - Keep.
29. Patrice Luzi - Gone.
31. David Raven - Dunno.
32. John Welsh - One last year.
33. Neil Mellor - Gone.
34. Darren Potter - Gone.
36. Jon Otsemobor - Dunno.
37. Zak Whitbread - Dunno.
40. Paul Harrison - Dunno.
41. Mark Smyth - Dunno.
42. Robbie Foy - Dunno.
- Gregory Vignal - Gone.
- Alou Diarra - Call back and see.
- David Mannix - Gone.
- Carl Medjani - Gone.
- Bruno Cheyrou - Gone.
- El-Hadji Diouf - Gone (for a free?).

If gives us a squad of 16 players!!!
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Shankly Gates
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Date d'inscription : 2005-01-13

So you think ii is all over? Empty
PostSubject: That's my point   So you think ii is all over? EmptyWed 9 Mar 2005 - 19:44

That's my point Rich, shouldn't Raffa be doing the rebuilding he needs to do without having to worry about the CL?

I note that basically your choices are not that different from the ones I think Raffa wants to keep.

I think someone will come in for Stevie G, if he is going to go I hope there is an all out bidding war for him.

Got to go and watch the preview of the match now, Come on you Reds bravo
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