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 Le dernier Tomkins

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PostSubject: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyWed 23 Jan 2008 - 1:04

http://www.paultomkins.com/blog.html


Un petit tour sur le Blog de Paul Tomkins, pour partager ses doutes et ses analyses.

En ces temps difficiles, les opinions de Paul sont toujours une lumière d'espoir !
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youknowwho
walking in Anfield road



Nombre de messages : 304
Date d'inscription : 2007-05-20

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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyWed 23 Jan 2008 - 3:45

I think in this case the light at the end of tunnel is actually an oncoming train.
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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyTue 12 Feb 2008 - 20:15

paultomkins.com

Going Underground
22nd January 2008 (Updates and additions 24th January)

There are a number of reasons I’m taking a back seat from writing again right now. Frankly, I’m disillusioned with the way things are going off the field, and feel that it’s affecting what is happening on the pitch. It’s all very depressing.

For me, this season is a write-off; that doesn’t mean giving up on the two cups, but all I want now is a top four finish (which should be possible) and a chance -- please -- to start afresh next season with all the turmoil a thing of the past.

I take everything connected with the club far more personally these days; maybe all fans do to varying degrees, but feeling expected to write about every significant issue (either from the pressure I put on myself, or from emails I receive, some requesting my take on things, others more confrontational) takes it’s toll. But it’s also hard for me to stay quiet, particularly when I read something really stupid being written about the club. My instinct is to leap to the defence of the player or manager who is being unfairly criticised.

Once I release a book, which has taken many months to write, I have to then write columns to publicise that book, as that’s the only avenue open to me; by mid-winter, given my illness, I’m usually exhausted. It’s a vicious circle, and this winter has been particularly tiring, for obvious reasons. The updated version of An Anfield Anthology is out next month, but I’ve limited the copies produced so there’s less pressure on shifting them.

Thankfully Above Us Only Sky has sold out far quicker than expected (a few copies may remain in shops, but the wholesalers have run out of stock). I see no point in producing any more, as so much has changed since last October when it was published -- just three months ago.

It’s impossible to judge the performance of the team right now, because it’s an almost unworkable situation. Talk that the off-the-field issue won’t affect the players makes no sense; it won’t turn them into rubbish footballers overnight, but you need an atmosphere conducive to success from top to bottom, and clearly that isn’t the case right now. For example, Spurs were doing really well under Martin Jol until last summer, when his position was undermined.

No matter what he then did, that team were a mess until he was finally replaced. I’m not saying that Benítez needs to be replaced; quite the opposite, in fact.

I can’t think of one club that has succeeded on the pitch while there’s been this much unrest off it. Indeed, clubs have faltered with far less disruption. As well as Martin Jol, the recent list pretty much proves that Benítez stands no chance of getting the team to anywhere near its true level unless things are resolved behind the scenes.

Manchester United suffered during the Glazer takeover, although that was far less painful than this. They did fairly well in the league, finishing 2nd, but went out of the Champions League at the group stage just a few months after the takeover. The club also had problems when Ferguson was planning to retire; the uncertainty affected the team.

Everton were a mess until they got the stability of Kenwright and Moyes as a partnership; Moyes’ first few seasons were very up and down (big highs, terrible lows), but after six years he’s finally establishing them as a decent side. Newcastle have moved from one crisis to another, while moving from one manager to another. And as soon as Mourinho and Abramovich fell out, that was the end of Chelsea as a real force, as Manchester United overtook them.

Benítez isn’t so much as a dead man walking as a neutered manager working in limbo; even if Gillett and Hicks now believed in him 100%, no-one would ever believe it, short of the most remarkable gesture. Uncertainty helps no-one. Stability and security are needed to thrive. You need relaxed players, not those carrying a weight of pressure; nervousness breeds failure. And you need a manager who is in total control.

So much of football is psychological, be it confidence or belief or a relaxed state of mind, and that becomes even more complicated when it’s an issue surrounding the whole club.

It’s been a season of bimonthly catastrophucks to derail progress: September, with the departure of Pako Ayesteran just as the team were purring; November, with the big Rafa/owners fallout; and January, the Klinsmann revelations and the whole thing going nuclear. No team can flourish in such circumstances.

Clearly there’s a lot that’s right with the team, in amongst all the shortcomings. Indeed, with such a strong youth team, and the reserve team also doing so well, there’s a lot right with all the teams. There are a number of world-class and top-class players in the first team squad. There may be a few not cutting the mustard, but as I’ve said before, there’s no-one clearly taking (or on) the piss. Just like Arsene Wenger, it doesn’t matter how many mistakes Benítez makes in the market, he always lands one, two or three stars each season.

The senior side is proving hard to beat, and is keeping going to the end of matches to score late goals.

There is far more attacking talent on the books this year, with Torres in particular, and then Babel and Benayoun (the pair have seven goals each which, given they’ve been in and out of a side they are new to, is very good by January. If not totally exceptional, then certainly an improvement on the output of Gonzalez and Pennant, and more like having two Luis Garcias instead of one).

The issue of who partners Torres is still unresolved, and maybe that’s an issue for the summer, if no-one puts down a firm marker in the meantime (the difficulty with Crouch being that, like Torres, he’s best as the spearhead, and no top team players with two of those these days). But despite some problems, the team have scored four or more goals nine occasions now (only one of those against really inferior opposition), and can clearly take teams apart, once the two-goal margin is in place.

But at present the side clearly has a big mental block when that second goal isn’t scored. And no manager alive can act to definitively remove such a block; the team needs to retain its belief, and even if it gets lucky holding on for a couple of 1-0 wins, doing so will go a long way to ridding the ‘curse’. It’s particularly true at Anfield, where Benítez had such a strong record before this season. There’s no reason why that can’t return once the cloud is lifted. But with the cloud, it will be extra difficult.

Whatever their intentions when they pitched up, the whole situation regarding the fans has backfired on Gillett and Hicks to a spectacular degree. They may choose to cut their losses -- or rather, make off with their winnings; or they may opt to stick around for the long-haul, either to try and turn things around (however unlikely that may seem with fan opinion so low), or to further expand their chances of a windfall years down the line. Right now, I have no idea what it’ll be.

I still have some doubts about DIC, and find myself a little uncomfortable at the way they’re being treated as saviours without having actually done anything to merit that.

But while I believe it’s possible things could get worse whoever is in charge, if they did buy the club it would certainly give the clean slate and fresh start that would be almost impossible now under the current regime, no matter what the Americans attempted by way of pacifying the fans. Even if they tried everything possible, I don’t know how Kopites would ever trust them again. It’s easy to see why fans are clinging to the hope that DIC, with the money being their own and a genuine fan running the organisation, would be a better bet right now.

I hope everything is resolved for the ultimate good of Liverpool FC, and I can be back in the groove soon. It’s not that my health is especially bad at the moment, more a combination of not being at my best (winter, viruses, etc, on top of overdoing things) and the task of writing about the club being too much at the moment.

I will at least try to keep up with one article on the official site each month, as is expected of me. But I am struggling to find either the energy or the inclination to write about anything to do with football right now, and see it as best to treat this as a natural break to rest and recuperate.

This is always the most difficult time of year for me; I tend to pick up over the spring and summer months. Hopefully the same will be true of Liverpool FC.
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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyTue 12 Feb 2008 - 20:18

Et la toute dernière version de Tomkins sur Red & White :

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=209208.msg3832213#new


The Impossible Job
« on: January 31, 2008, 02:08:19 PM »

To my mind, managing Liverpool is currently –– by far and away –- the most difficult job in English football. It’s become an impossible mission.

Two decades without the league title is an enormous weight bearing down on whoever has to manage the team. It has become a millstone the size of the moon, and that was the case even before Benítez arrived.

It has got to the stage where even Champions League Finals are seen as “nothing”, in this almighty desire for the title at all costs, and nothing else. Believe me, I keep seeing fans dismiss Champions League Finals like it was the Carling Cup being discussed. When did we get so obnoxious, spoilt and greedy?

And now there’s a new sense of impatience surrounding the club that emanated from within, with news that Benítez’s job was under threat in November, when the side were still in a good league position but struggling in the Champions League; a threat that only recently surfaced to the public, since when things have got dramatically worse on the pitch. Coincidence?

It’s no wonder the team appear to be in meltdown right now. A self-fulfilling prophecy was put in place. And even if all parties have genuinely cleared the air between them, following desperate summit meetings, which may well have been the case (to some degree at least), the air itself remains noxious in the eyes of those viewing from the outside.

When has impatience ever been a virtue in football? Was it a virtue when Ferguson took United to 11th, 2nd, 11th and 13th in his first four seasons? Or 7th in his 5th? If memory serves, United’s board stayed strong, stayed patient.

Or what about when Arsenal won nothing between 1998 and 2002? I recall disgruntled Gooners on 606 circa 2000/2001, saying Wenger had taken them as far as he could. Did David Dein and co. get impatient? Did they speak to some recently retired international with no club management experience, and make it public?

Or what about when Everton finished 11th (complete with double European humiliation) in 2005/06, a year after the heady high of 4th? Or 17th in 2003/04, inches from relegation, a year after an impressive 7th? Did they panic?

It shames me to say it, but, Tescos aside, Everton should be proud of the way they’ve run their club in recent years. And they’re reaping the rewards.

That doesn’t mean it won’t get harder for the Toffees as expectations rise, and should they have to work out how to play distracting, high-profile Champions League games midweek and have enough left for weekend league fixtures (and the Uefa Cup is not the same, believe me). But they’re going about building in the right way. The sensible way. They’ve giving Moyes the best chance of succeeding, relatively speaking. (But of course, no-one expects a league title in a million years, even though their last one was only three years prior to the Reds’.)

Liverpool have the 3rd-most expensive squad in the league, but way behind the two most expensive ones. And Benítez has been in the job the 3rd-longest of the ‘big four’, but Ferguson and Wenger have an incredible 34 years in charge between them. As a result, no-one dares to tell them what to do. And as both Ferguson and Wenger recently said, that’s the way it has to be.

Based purely on money spent (cost of the current squad at the manager’s disposal, not gross spend or net spend), the league table should look like this:

1 Chelsea
2 Man United
3 Liverpool
4 Arsenal

What about the league table when based on each club’s wealth, and their turnover?

1 Chelsea (based on Abramovich’s wealth, not turnover)
2 Manchester United
3 Arsenal
4 Liverpool

Linked to the cost of the squad, but with the price of players not being a fail-safe barometer of their ability, is the quality of the squad. This is purely subjective, and as such, I’m presenting only my opinion. Plus, you also have a situation where Chelsea have the biggest squad in terms of depth, but Manchester United have the best XI, suggesting both might be equal overall.

1= Chelsea
1= Manchester United
3= Arsenal
3= Liverpool

How about a league table based on managerial talent? Based on all achievements in the game of football since the turn of the millennium, I would suggest the following:

1= Arsenal
1= Manchester United
1= Liverpool

So, joint first for Liverpool, with Benítez’s miracles in Valencia and Istanbul proving his quality as a manager beyond doubt, and putting his overall achievements since 2000 on a par with the others. But –– crucially –– Wenger and Ferguson would rank more highly based on Premier League achievements; although, it has to be noted, that Ferguson did far, far, far worse in his first four seasons in the league at United.

Based on time the manager has spent in the job –– another well-known and valuable barometer to judging success (in that it takes many years to shape a club from top to bottom, particularly when it comes to bringing through young players) –– the league table should look like this:

1 Manchester United
2 Arsenal
3 Everton
4 Liverpool

Also related to time in the job is stability: the working environment presented to the manager by his relationship with the power brokers, as well as the level of certainty/uncertainty surrounding his position (either real, or perceived through the media, who will do whatever they can to exacerbate the situation to improve their sales/ratings). With this in mind, the league would look something like this:

1= Manchester United
1= Arsenal
3 Everton
4= Chelsea
4= Spurs
4= Newcastle
4= Aston Villa
4= Manchester City
. . .
20 Liverpool (replacing Newcastle)

Whatever the reasons, and however true or not, Benítez’s position appears to be the least secure and stable in the league, now that Sam Allardyce and Martin Jol have been sacked. Rafa is under the most pressure.

The thing Liverpool desperately need is a point of difference, that will raise them above their rivals. And from these, is there one? No. Chelsea have theirs: the most money. United have theirs: the most experienced manager. Arsenal have theirs: their unprecedented youth procurement scheme. Liverpool’s strongest point is having a top-class manager, but then so too do its rivals. The youth scheme could rival Arsenal’s down the line, but it’s a case of playing serious catch-up. But even if the Reds replaced Rafa, who is unquestionably a better manager than Ferguson and Wenger? Can Liverpool ever have the most money? No. The most trusted manager? No.

So then –– with all I’ve discussed, on what criteria should Liverpool be 1st?

History. And history alone.

But that’s almost ancient history now; are we still living in the past? And does history win you trophies? Ask Blackpool, Leeds, Nottingham Forest. Recent history –– the last 10-15 years, which is more relevant in many ways –– again suggests that 3rd or 4th is the best Liverpool can hope for.

Indeed, Souness lowered the bar in the early ‘90s, finishing 6th, 6th and 8th and flunking out early in almost every cup, while Houllier managed to rise to 2nd for one season, but fall as low as 5th and 7th. Five clubs have won the league since Liverpool last did, and only one of those is new to the list since Benítez arrived: megabucks Chelsea. Crucially, indeed, super-crucially, Arsenal and Manchester United, as clubs, had grown highly used to winning league titles by the time Rafa pitched up.

And if you look at all the league tables I have produced –– some subjective, but most not –– and combine them for an average position, then 4th place is about the best Liverpool can realistically expect in the current climate, and in the foreseeable future.

I’m not trying to defend Benítez for the sake of it, or saying that he is 100% correct in everything he ever does, and that I agree with all of his decisions, merely trying to put into context the task he faces.

I honestly can’t accurately judge the side or the tactics right now, because there is this big black cloud hanging over the club, obfuscating matters. Part of that stems back to the falling out with Pako Ayestaran in September, which may have been Rafa’s fault to some (unmeasurable) degree, and which, for me, was the first unsettling moment of the season. But then came what I can only politely describe as the ‘shitstorm’, that has distorted any clear analysis.

Yes, Kuyt is having a stinker of a season, and yes, Crouch, on paper ‘deserves’ more playing time; but that would mean two spearhead strikers, something no other top club deploys –– each has at least one player working the space between the lines (United have two, in Rooney and Tevez!). And yes, Babel looks suited to the role in theory, but he’s still a kid and still new to England; so it’s not like Rafa is ignoring an obvious, fail-safe immediate solution.

Yes, it may be the manager’s fault that he doesn’t yet have a second-striker who is good enough to link play between the midfield and also score goals. But then again, Kuyt looked good enough in the role last season, and at the start of this. There are issues in the wide areas (although the two new wide men share 17 goals this season, despite not being regulars), but it’s also an area where Benítez was thwarted in the market, with Simao and Alves too expensive and Malouda opting for Chelsea.

Meanwhile you have the unpalatable sight of Gerrard showing signs of dissent with the manager’s decisions as if he’s Alan Shearer, and the previously criticism-free Carragher conceding a clutch of penalties already this season, and frankly lucky it’s not been more. Defending set-pieces, which was immaculate for nearly two years, has become a comedy of errors again. Some of this may be down to the manager, but the players need to stand up and be counted, too.

You can argue such points, and suggest Benítez isn’t helping himself at times, and you may be right, but how can you judge his performances and decisions as if they exist in a vacuum? There is the context to consider.

Which Liverpool manager has ever had to work in such difficult circumstances? Or anything remotely as close? Kenny Dalglish had the very different pressures of Hillsborough to contend with, but that took its toll on him and his team, as his decisions seemed to become less easily understandable. But has the board ever fallen out with the manager, and the fans been up in arms and protesting about the owners? I can’t recall a Liverpool manager facing such an unsettling situation.

Examples of managers failing after being undermined are everywhere. Martin Jol was instantly undermined at the start of the season when it became known the club wanted Juande Ramos instead, so failure became a self-fulfilling prophecy; results stayed well below what Jol was previously getting, because every game was likely to be his last.

The same happened at Chelsea when Mourinho, having landed two league titles, had his job description unofficially changed by Abramovich at the start of Year 3, to be about finding a place for his the owner’s Shevchenko in the team and asking them to play pretty triangles, while, in the reverse of Liverpool, the league became less important than the European Cup.

Short of a miracle, it is dawning on me that a league title has become an impossibility. It’s why we are now seen as a cup team –– because that is the most realistic avenue open to any Liverpool manager.

The main hope for a league title in the future relates to what is coming through the ranks, and if Rafa, or any subsequent manager, can make the most of a crop of promising kids sourced in the last two-three years, in the way Wenger has at Arsenal (albeit after a few seasons of relative mediocrity, winning fewer trophies than Liverpool as they developed, and finishing below the Reds for two seasons running.)

The reserves –– a breeding ground for Benítez’s young buys –– are doing very well. The youth team hasn’t lost an FA Youth Cup game in three seasons since Rafa started supplementing it with talented, scouted players, and have just beaten a more experienced and lauded Arsenal side. Quality is bubbling below the surface, and the first team has a superb (and still relatively young) spine.

But confidence has been lost –– by, it seems, pretty much everyone at the club: the players (in themselves, and possibly the board and the manager); the manager (in the owners, and possibly himself), and the fans (in just about everything connected with the club). Crucially, do the players have confidence that the board has confidence in Rafa?

If it ends up that Benítez has to be sacked, it is because the situation at Liverpool has become too messy to make it a stable working environment –– for him at least. That wouldn’t make immediately replacing him the correct or decent thing to do, because it’s not necessarily his fault that the club is in apparent turmoil, even if he did first make the tensions public.

Maybe someone else can come in and do a better job at this point in time, and for a few months, but the problem is that Tom Hicks has hinted with his actions over Jurgen Klinsmann that he’s quick on the draw with regard to replacing managers; if that is true, Liverpool will be in danger of becoming like Newcastle (with their myriad farces of the last decade, where they would chop and change from ruthless disciplinarians to kindly men who “understand the club”, all to equal levels of mediocrity), unless the American duo have learned their lesson. And have they? Who knows...

But I now see no easy solution to this quest for the holy grail. Because, by next season, Liverpool will still have, at best, the 3rd-most expensive and 3rd-most talented squad in the league, and, at best, the 4th-most experienced manager in his current role. And with the club approaching 20 years without the title, the manager, whoever he is, will have the hardest job in the land.

And even if Tom Hicks was to marry Benítez and the pair adopt children together, the media would stir and stir, so that I can’t see Benítez ever being secure enough in his job to make it work. He might well still be the 20th-most secure manager in the Premier League.

None of this means I want him replaced (far from it), but right now I see him, and the club itself, caught between a rock and a hard place. It seems like a vicious circle.

All we can do now, as the manager undertakes his increasingly impossible job, is to dream the impossible dream, whatever the fuck that might be.

© Paul Tomkins 2008

www.paultomkins.com
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Nombre de messages : 304
Date d'inscription : 2007-05-20

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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyTue 12 Feb 2008 - 22:53

What Tomkins quite conveniently fails to mention in his article is to compare Rafa's performance to those teams currently either above i.e. Everton or just below and fighting it out for 4th place.

Take your pick, anyone of them have spent considerably less than Rafa and in the case of Man City and A Villa to make matters worse the respective managers have had less time in charge.
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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyMon 3 Mar 2008 - 14:11

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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyThu 6 Mar 2008 - 21:32

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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyWed 26 Mar 2008 - 3:32

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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptySat 29 Mar 2008 - 7:00

Tomkins rules ...

Le pauvre Paulo, ce qu'il peut prendre comme critiques sur les sites ...

Dis Ant, on aura bientôt la newletter avec son entretien ?
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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyTue 13 May 2008 - 16:29

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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyTue 13 May 2008 - 18:22

brittanyred wrote:
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/NG159906080513-1135.htm

J'ai rapidement lu cet article et c'est assez incroyable de penser "l'importance" qu'a eu Hillborough dans l'histoire moderne du club. Si j'ai bien compris ce que Tomkins écrit, Dalglish a quelque peu perdu "le feu interne" après le drame de Sheffield et après le départ de King Kenny, on a hérité de Souness qui n'a pas été un manager du même calibre que le joueur qu'il a été.

Aussi, je note une chose qui revient souvent dans les articles de Tomkins. Il arrive toujours a être hyper positif en ressortant les chiffres (ou statistiques) qui soulignent son opinion. Je me suis toujours demandé si on sortait d'autres chiffres (et d'autres statistiques), certains pourraient dire ou écrire l'opposé de ce que dit Tomkins. Attention, je ne recherche pas à dénigrer Tomkins, loin de là, mais par expérience, les chiffres peuvent être interpêtées de tellement de manières différentes qu'il faut parfois prendre tout cela avec un peu de recul.
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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyWed 21 May 2008 - 13:50

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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyWed 21 May 2008 - 14:10

Intéressant son point de vue sur Babel, j'ai un peu le même sentiment.
Sauf que Babel est un plus " faux-lent " pour moi.
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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyWed 21 May 2008 - 21:09

Qu'est ce qu'il dit sur Babel ? Parce quoi moi niveau anglais...
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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyThu 22 May 2008 - 10:06

Tomkins considère que Babel peut rivaliser avec Ronaldo; il s'appuie sur les stats de ce dernier en disant qu'il lui a fallu 2-3 ans avant d'être le joueur qu'on connait.
Pour ma part je partage assez son avis, Babel est super intéressant et son potentiel énorme. Reste à prendre de l'assurance au sein de cette équipe et à éliminer le déchet dû à un certain manque de lucidité par moments.
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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyThu 22 May 2008 - 10:33

vince wrote:
Tomkins considère que Babel peut rivaliser avec Ronaldo; il s'appuie sur les stats de ce dernier en disant qu'il lui a fallu 2-3 ans avant d'être le joueur qu'on connait.
Pour ma part je partage assez son avis, Babel est super intéressant et son potentiel énorme. Reste à prendre de l'assurance au sein de cette équipe et à éliminer le déchet dû à un certain manque de lucidité par moments.

Moi je connais un Tako connu de quelques uns par ici qui n'aime pas Babel.

'Fin, je dis ça, je dis rien... happy
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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyThu 22 May 2008 - 10:57

rodofromparis wrote:
vince wrote:
Tomkins considère que Babel peut rivaliser avec Ronaldo; il s'appuie sur les stats de ce dernier en disant qu'il lui a fallu 2-3 ans avant d'être le joueur qu'on connait.
Pour ma part je partage assez son avis, Babel est super intéressant et son potentiel énorme. Reste à prendre de l'assurance au sein de cette équipe et à éliminer le déchet dû à un certain manque de lucidité par moments.

Moi je connais un Tako connu de quelques uns par ici qui n'aime pas Babel.

'Fin, je dis ça, je dis rien... happy

Mouais; Babel a un potentiel, mais est-il un dribbleur ? Après une saison, la réponse est non. A lui de prouver le contraire, mais ça risque d'être difficile.
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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyThu 22 May 2008 - 11:33

Le plus dur commence pour lui: confirmer et exploser. Nombreux sont ceux à qui ont promettaient un très grand avenir et qui n'ont jamais eu la carrière espérée. Pour Babel j'y crois.
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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyThu 22 May 2008 - 11:46

J'espère aussi que Babel va exploser la prochaine saison. Il est encore jeune et perfectible. Cette année il a beaucoup apporté lorsqu'il est entré en cours de match. Rafa va le faire progresser ! cheers LFC scarf
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PostSubject: Re: Le dernier Tomkins   Le dernier Tomkins EmptyFri 23 May 2008 - 3:37

babel c'est du tout bon a mon gout,pour sa 1ere saison plutot joker il est vrai,mais j'attend avec impatience cette nouvelle saison pour voir ses talents trés prométteurs.en tout cas ont sent bien ses capacités!
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Official Forum for Real Liverpool Supporters in France :: News and Views of LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB :: THE LATEST NEWS (IN ENGLISH) FROM LFC-
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